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Tuesday, March 27, 2007
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 Tuesday, March 27, 2007
started 3/27/2007; 2:19:33 AM - last post 3/29/2007; 2:39:55 PM
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Doc Searls - Tuesday, March 27, 2007 
3/27/2007; 6:19:33 AM (reads: 15624, responses: 8)
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One thing considered 
Getting past the bottom of What Went Wrong
| | I was on my way to guest speaking to a marketing class this last evening at our local community college when I got a call from a friend who told me about Kathy Sierra's harrowing post about why she's not going to eTech. In the class, I brought up Technorati to show how blogging works and found Kathy's name at #5 among search terms. It's #3 now. |
| | As I type this, I am supposed to be in San Diego, delivering a workshop at the ETech conference. But I'm not. I'm at home, with the doors locked, terrified. For the last four weeks, I've been getting death threat comments on this blog. But that's not what pushed me over the edge. What finally did it was some disturbing threats of violence and sex posted on two other blogs... blogs authored and/or owned by a group that includes prominent bloggers. People you've probably heard of. People like respected Cluetrain Manifesto co-author Chris Locke (aka Rageboy). |
| | It began just over four weeks ago, when something shifted. It started with death threat blog comments left here ... |
| | It gets worse, and goes beyond that. Police are mentioned. So are the four familiar bloggers known to be involved with a blog called MeanKids, which is now down. One is Frank Paynter, who explains, |
| | MeanKids was purposeful anarchy. I thought the people at MeanKids would create art and criticism, pointed and insulting satire, but not foster a climate of fear. Misogynistic postings at MeanKids.org led me to try to moderate, but indeed the group there was of the ³You Own Your Own Words² tradition, so moderating or central editorial control wouldn¹t work. I tore the site down. |
| | A core group that gathered at both these sites includes people I consider important artists, thinkers, and writers. Most of those who posted were not posting the kind of hurtful trash that made Kathy feel threatened. Some of the stuff was brilliant. Some was interesting. Some was mundane. |
| | Kathy and I have an ongoing conversation that goes back a ways. We met online under strained circumstances. I think over the past year or two we developed a mutual respect. I am sad and angry that this relationship has been destroyed. |
| | In Frank's comments, Kathy wrote, |
| | I accept your apology and it means a lot to me. Nobody else involved has said a word to me about this except Joey and he brought lies and more insults. |
| | The relationship has not been destroyed. Far from itŠ you just went up a big notch. Thank you. |
| | Just before class started and later on the way home from the class I called three people I knew to be involved with MeanKids and whose numbers are also in my phone. I didn't get to talk to anybody and only left messages. |
| | Now I'm starting to go through the mountain of blog posts on the matter. Several stand out so far. First is Don Park's Simply Awful, where he says |
| | It makes no sense to expect moderation to work in purposeful anarchy. What was he trying to accomplish? Pan the river of nastyness for nuggets of brilliance? Based on what Frank wrote above, he suggested Kathy Sierra as one of the people Mean Kids should pick on. Did Kathy ask for a gang of intellectual anarchist to pick on her? All I read form Frank's post of clarity is pointing fingers at others and admitting his inability to control an intentionally uncontrollable situation when, IMHO, he is directly responsible for letting his naivety and vain pursuit of brilliant conversations hurt others. |
| | This isn't far from the concern I had when some of the MeanKids creators approached me to participate a few weeks ago. I thought it wasn't a good idea, but didn't say anything. In fact, I don't think I visited the site after I failed to log into it before it launched. Wish I had. |
| | For what it's worth, I never heard of unclebobism, where bad stuff was also posted and which is now also down. |
| | Doc Searls was mentioned more than once in the piece and after a visit to his blog, I see no reference to the story nor that he has in any way reached out to his co-author for a statement. I too would ask that Doc give us some help in determining the nature of Chris Locke¹s involvement and what he intends as leader in this community to bring this to a close. |
| | I'm telling you right now what I know. I got back from the class at 9:15, talked to my kid and tucked him in bed after that, and arrived here at my desk at about 10:00. Now it's 11:20 and I'm reading mountains of blogs and emails as fast as I can, along with several IMs that running live as well. |
| | It will be easier for everybody if those involved disclose what they know. |
| | My last post before this one was a pointer to the new Principles of Citizen Journalism site. The first principle is Accuracy, and it begins, Getting your facts right isn't always so simple. No shit. But that's what I'm trying to do right now. I suggest the rest of us do the same. |
| | Meanwhile, I hope Kathy changes her mind and goes to eTech. In fact, I am sure going will do a world of good — for her and for blogging as well. I wasn't going this year because I need to spend more time on work and with my family. But now I'm starting to regret that decision a bit, because this eTech is one where a lot of constructive conversation can happen — because of what went wrong here. |
| | [Later...] It's 4:08 in the afternoon. I've been on calls and in meetings since dawn (many relating to the matter at hand here), and will surely more before the day is through. Meanwhile, Kathy's name has been sitting at #1 among Technorati searches, and her original post has close to 900 comments. |
| | Don Park has posted a copy of a MeanKids post about Maryam Scoble that crossed from mean to cruel and beyond even that. Scoble is right to be sickened and angry, as is Maryam. |
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http://richij.com/ - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/27/2007; 12:32:23 PM (reads: 1097, responses: 0)
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Ironic that Kathy's experience of the downside of being notable on the internet comes at the same time that people are talking about how employers increasingly see a lack of personal branding as a negative when hiring. Today's IT Blogwatch has more.
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IMHO, it's never a good idea to encourage meanness. Your first impulse -- that the site was a bad idea -- was the right one. I've seen some seriously mean and hurtful things done on supposedly anonymous blogs.
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Jonathan Peterson - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/27/2007; 5:32:09 PM (reads: 1142, responses: 0)
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Anyone who has participated in an active mailing list or forum has seen this same drama played out dozens of times. I've seen numerous flamefests degenerate into threats that enter the same range that Kathy has seen (FWIW right down to the use of a noose picture).
Semi-anonymity, quick/thoughtless responses and the very human urge to take something just a little bit further to get attention can as easily end in ugliness on the internet as they can on a playground.
I would like to agree that anyone involved owes Kathy an explanation. Or that anyone who knows folks involved in meankids, etc, should be leaning on them.
By calling in the police, Kathy almost assuredly over-reacted to indefensibly tasteless joking harassment.
ALMOST assuredly.
That's a big damned almost when it's your safety or that of a loved one on the line.
BUT now that it's spilled into the real world, the police, FBI, lawsuits may be involved. The possibility for community self-policing is gone. I'm sure your lawyer would tell you that public disclosure now would be idiocy.
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Andrew Leyden - Anarchy
3/27/2007; 5:45:16 PM (reads: 1075, responses: 0)
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I remember once when we were in college my professor told us on the first day that the class would attack all that we believed, that there would be no holds barred discussions and that a state of virtual anarchy would exist to help us tear down our previous beliefs.
So my buddy walked up to the front of the class, jumped on his desk and undid his pants, squatting down over the teachers desk.
"If there are no rules, I'm taking a dump on your seat" he said.
Needless to say, we then had a bit of a lecture on 'respect' and a 'semblance of decency.'
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tish grier - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/27/2007; 7:35:08 PM (reads: 1134, responses: 0)
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you know, Doc, you can dislike someone...you can disagree intellectually with somene (I don't particular like the title of Sierra's blog, nor do I like some of her commentary) but to go online and reiterate the horrid Jack-the-Lad saying that equates women with garden slugs is neither funny nor defensible. when Laddies get together and say those sorts of things among themselves, they reinforce their own flagging masculinity in the face of someone they perceive as unattainable. But when their sentiments are posted in public, the sentiments take on a whole new and more ominous tone and meaning....it would have been far nicer if folks who are smart enough and have enough clout just challenge Kathy on some of her theories vs. getting into these sorts of really godawful personal attacks...
BTW, another woman by the name of Peggy Phillip--a Memphis tv exec--was run out of the blogosphere last year...from Terry Heaton's blog entry on the incident:
http://www.thepomoblog.com/archive/the-tactics-of-peggyblues/
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Lloyd D Budd - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/27/2007; 10:22:25 PM (reads: 1049, responses: 0)
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rjh - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/28/2007; 2:15:14 PM (reads: 1141, responses: 0)
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There is another aspect of the Sierra story that is relevant to citizen journalists. I was at a seminar several years ago(sponsored by Pew if I recall correctly) about Internet and the press. They noted one major trend, which is the level of threats to journalists. All journalists (independent of sex) were experiencing very high levels of personal abuse and threats. The level had risen from that of occasional problems with articles on dangerous subjects to one where many journalists were in a constant state of fear.
This cause of this increase was unclear. It was correlated with Internet activity, but there has also be a dramatic increase in the global level of violence against journalists (killings, physical violence, imprisonment). Also, the general level of public discourse has changed from argumentation to persuade (which implies mutual respect, openness to change, willingness to accept evidence rather than proof) to intimidation, ridicule, or bludgeoning the other side into submission.
The growth of public journalism also means that the public is entering into this more dangerous domain. The education of potential public journalists should include education regarding the dangers of that participation.
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Steve Patchen - Re: Tuesday, March 27, 2007
3/29/2007; 6:39:55 PM (reads: 1071, responses: 0)
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What Doc failed to mention is his presentation to my class was fantastic. And that's accurate. He is, without doubt, the best presenter we've heard talk about a subject he pioneered, and has such passion for. It all comes through. A public thank you to a very busy guy who took time out to help educate students to present("early stages") of "Marketing is conversation" and that "advertising is dead", i.e. as we currently know it. His example of how we go about buying cars today, made it so clear. And, auto mfrs still spend billions of dollars in coop funds for dealer ads. What a waste! In the past, dealers (of products & services) were given coop funds to let people know where to buy, while manufacturers and marketers communicated functions and benefits. Some ads even ran with lists of dealers.
We have come a long way, and Doc made it crystal clear, we're moving fast forward in how we determine what we want and where to buy it. The internet age is here!
Thanks again, Doc. You're terrific.
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