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Saturday, March 19, 2005
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Saturday, March 19, 2005
started 3/19/2005; 8:41:53 PM - last post 3/20/2005; 10:29:50 AM
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Doc Searls - Saturday, March 19, 2005 
3/20/2005; 12:41:53 AM (reads: 8012, responses: 9)
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Stay tuned
| | What Ross said, specifically, was |
| | This application kicks serious ass. Look out podcasters, this is going to be an interesting ride. |
| | Dave makes a number of points about "insider" conferences (in this case, O'Reilly's eTech, which just finished), about the excluding effects of conferences (causing insiders and outsiders), and this: |
| | Doc, who understands how bloggers hate to be talked down to by professonal journalists who know bupkis about blogging, now does exactly the same thing to podcasters. |
| | Okay, let's go back over what I said, then why, and then back to Dave's points. |
| | After making the point (I thought) that BlogMatrtix, Odeo (Ev's product) and Podshow (Adam's product) were "three different offerings, three different categories, three different conversations", I added, |
| | Chill, folks. Markets are public places where makers and vendors offer users and customers lots of choice. Not coliseums where gladiators kick and stab each other to death while the rest of us cheer over bruises and blood. |
| | The first remark was about the podcasting market: How it should be big enough for everybody we know now, and many more. And about how different the early participants already are. |
| | The second remark was a caution about falling into the mainstream journalistic convention we call "vendor sports". I feel strongly about this. In fact, I created IT Garage specifically as a place where we wouldn't do vendor sports. Dave purposely crafted BloggerCon (a model for blog-generation conferences) to do the same thing, and then some. (For what it's worth, I still think there are merits to old-style conferences, too. This eTech was one of the best I've ever been to.) |
| | I don't think Ross was copying mainstream journalists, by the way. I think he was saying what Dave agrees with heartily: that Ev and Adam have been blessed with lots of mainstream PR, while David Janes hasn't had any publicity at all for a product that (I'll take Ross' word for it) rocks. In other words, I responded to Ross' rant with one of my own bugaboos. That doesn't mean I was wrong about what I said. It does mean I was off the topic Ross brought up. |
| | I didn't think I was talking down to anybody. Even when I pointed out that BlogMatrix only runs on Windows. My intention was to encourage people to welcome everybody with something to offer into the marketplace, to regard them on their own merits, and to respect the market as a big place where everybody can participate rather than a small place where a few combatants fight to "win" by hurting or destroying each other. |
| | All that said, is Dave still right? Was I lecturing in the worst sense by talking down? |
| | Doc, how about looking at your words from our perspective. Talking to us through you ain't going to cut it. Your friends who want to earn the respect of the podcasters should explain in the medium, in their own voices, in their own words -- produce a podcast and tell us what the fuck they're doing, instead of leaving us guessing. Then you might see the hostility ease, because that's where it comes from. |
| | The our he's talking about is podcasters: people who preach what they practice. Not who, like me, just preach. |
| | Because, so far, I'm not a podcaster. |
| | It's an important distinction. As long as I'm not podcasting I'm like one of those journalists who writes about blogging without ever writing a blog. |
| | Aside to Steve Gillmor: participating in a podcast, even one as good as The Gillmor Gang, is not the same as being a podcaster. I won't be a real podcaster until I produce my own goods. That's just a fact. |
| | So here's the deal (also a message to my own rear, which is not yet in gear): I won't write another thing about podcasters until I'm doing a podcast myself. |
discuss
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Ross Button - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 4:36:38 AM (reads: 647, responses: 0)
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oops, xtra post
my connection was flakey last night
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Ross Button - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 4:43:59 AM (reads: 678, responses: 0)
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oops, xtra post
my connection was flakey last night
discuss
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Ross Button - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 4:48:12 AM (reads: 680, responses: 0)
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oops, xtra post
my connection was flakey last night
discuss
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Ross Button - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 4:53:09 AM (reads: 1855, responses: 0)
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The world does not necessarily need another podcaster.
Podcasting is a channel. One more channel for people and organizations to communicate over. It is an important one as it is able to enable communications over coming the restrictions of time and connectivity.
It has limitations mainly that the podreceptor (the one who catches the podcast and is the audience for the communication) needs the time to listen. Scanning, searching and browsing is not high on the list of mp3 player features. Nor is archiving and indexing.
Reading text with images in a scanning mode with searching capabilities is where we are today. Please don't jump on the hype of podcasting. Please don't take your message from the highly effective medium that your blog represents. Please don't shift from a communications channel that works to one that has a more limited audience and places restrictions on your audience.
I can't agree with Dave Winer.
Doc, you are a good proxy for the podreceptor. Who cares if the podreceptor is a podcastor too ? What Bloxmatrix is all about (and I do use it having switched from Newsgator and Ipodder) is getting podcasts and streaming radio from the Internet and onto your local system. So when you spoke of Blogmatrix, you spoke as a podreceptor.
A while ago you wrote about burning MP3's onto cd's for use on the road. Good trick, I used it too when driving my daughter's car. We need more voices from the audience perspective to balance the enthusiasm of the producer perspective.
I find my own needs change depending on what my schedule is like. Podcasts are great on the road but not at home. Swearing just isn't a family thing in my house. But I still want to stay connected and 'hear' from people. It would be a shame to see different voices in print and in audio.
Podcasting is great. Blogs are great. Email is great. Video clips are great. RSS is wonderful.
And Dave, I used to do radio. But I doubt I will do a podcast. I know how to but don't have a burning desire to it. And I have the equipment. Just not the inclination. (That said I'll likely wind up doing one internally within 6 to 12 months). Before you tell me to fuck off again, I don't think that you have to record 30 minutes of stuff and create an RSS feed to be able to provide valuable input on podcasting. I doubt all the old media experts were all on air personalities. Your naivety as a technologist is showing. Just as it did when you declared that all podcasts must declare when they are pulling your leg. As if there aren't a lot of hidden agenda's out there. Transparency is a nice ideal but with millions of blogs and thousands of podcasts, it's a jungle out there. The wild wild west of the internet just keeps recreating itself.
Podshow and others are in effect creating new radio stations. Hopefully they will add value. I'd like to subscribe to safe for work podcasts. I see this as mandatory to beyond geek acceptance of podcasting. I for one could never sponsor corporate acceptance of podcasts that cross the line that so many podcasts do.
The hype on podcasting is jumping on the death of radio. This hype is fracturing the value of computer aided communications.
Podcasting can enhance the reach of a communicator. A communicator is now a website author, a blogger, a vidcaster or a podcaster, etc. Let's hear more about integrated channels for communicators. I see a world where a user matches their information and entertainment needs with communicators, their own schedule and the appropriate channel to access the information.
Ross
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lloyd davis - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 7:56:19 AM (reads: 1184, responses: 4)
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Doc, fwiw I think that removing yourself completely from the conversation would be an over-reaction and a loss - one of my first memories of podcasting (all those months ago!) was when you kept updating us on the status of the word in Google :)
I agree with Dave - I found what you said about your conversation with Evan a little patronising and exclusive, but I also appreciated what you were saying about the marketplace, that there's got to be room for at least three folk to have a go. I think we've gotten a bit caught up in the way that the vendors are framing the conversation. The position these guys sound as if they're taking is that they'd like to have a large number of people contributing to their revenue stream and a challenging competition which they ultimately overcome - entirely understandable as they push substantial bits of their capital into new businesses. I say let's have (at least) three tools to muck around with and see what we like or don't before I start wearing Adam's t-shirt or Evan's, or David's.
I think what's come your way is the frustration some people feel about what Evan is doing with Odeo (but not talking about except to carefully invited 'insiders') A blog company that promised (in the papers and at conferences) to transform blogging but had no blog would not be getting away with this. This all comes down to power - who's got it, who wants it, who's pissed off because they think they deserve it but they don't have it, who's secure enough to rise above the melee and wait for the dust to settle?
You know the best reparation you could make for this? Use that insider influence you have with the big boys to get the Gillmor Gang back on the air. My weekends are a big empty hole without spending half an hour listening to you listening to the other guys and then chipping in your litle nugget of gold.
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Dave Winer - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 11:58:50 AM (reads: 999, responses: 2)
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Doc Searls - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 2:29:50 PM (reads: 857, responses: 0)
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Quick one (no time, I'm packing to leave a motel)... I'm not removing myself from the convertsation about podcasting. I'm challenging myself to start podcasting by refusing to write about podcasters (the people) until I'm one of them.
As for the Gillmor Gang, it's up to Steve. He knows how we all feel (we want it back); but I don't know what he's going to do.
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Ross Button - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 3:56:27 PM (reads: 963, responses: 0)
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My comment is a bit off the direction that the prevous comments are heading but since the soapbox I'd like to point out that there are three equally important stakeholders in the world of pod:
Podcasters (1)
Podreceptors (2)
and Sponsors (3).
I contend that all three need to be considered. My observations so far are that we are progressing well on 1 and 2 but leaving the audience behind a bit in our thinking. We are heading to 57,000 channels and too much on. I see overload coming real quick. I now have a download to list ratio that is so high that for all intent and purposes, I listen to nothing.
The impact of downloaded but never listened to podcasts will nip the sponsors in the butt so badly that the concept could fall real quick. We will quickly come back to the need for manual surveys of listeners to confirm actual reach. There are no page hit counters in podreceptor land.
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lloyd davis - Re: Friday, March 18, 2005 
3/20/2005; 4:26:23 PM (reads: 995, responses: 0)
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